Curse

Karate Jesus · Jun 18, 2009, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

If the leaked infos are true this is going to be the worst nerf ritualists ever received, might as well remove them from the game.

Actually, they're trying to make them useful with weapon spells again. In PvE and PvP, primary rits will be the only characters worth using weapon spells on anymore because they'll be the only characters that can make their spells last long enough to be worth a damn.

Still....nerfing other professions abilities is a weird way to try to increase ritualist use.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 18, 2009, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Still....nerfing other professions abilities is a weird way to try to increase ritualist use.

Not really since it's already been proven that secondary skills used as utility on primary have always faired better than primary usage. Dual class combos are unique but have caused many problems when combined, see current flag runner template. See previous Rit/a template.

Keira Nightgale · Jun 18, 2009, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Actually, they're trying to make them useful with weapon spells again. In PvE and PvP, primary rits will be the only characters worth using weapon spells on anymore because they'll be the only characters that can make their spells last long enough to be worth a damn.

Still....nerfing other professions abilities is a weird way to try to increase ritualist use.

No, this is a primary nerf. They are forcing us to use Spawning power in order to get the same effect we already have with a 12-12-3 spread.

weapon of warding from 5-10s to 3 -8s duration

10seconds are achieved with 15 restoration magic

Currently with 15 in restoration and 3 in spawning your wow is going to last

10 seconds + 6%= 10.6 seconds
if the leaked infos are true it would be
8 seconds + 12%= 8.96 seconds

A 1.64 seconds shorter duration

In order to get similar result you'd have to put 8 in spawning, a waste of AP

About spirits, IMHO Anet thinks this is a good way to fix them, shame they totally forgot why spirits are useless. The main problem is not with casting time but with their AI, lack of utility, immobility, low level/armor/hp/energy cost and are generally not worth the effort, without mentioning how utterly idiotic 3/4 ritualist skills are (LOL spiritleech aura, and 4, WTF FOUR resurrection skills for a non core class all having the same exact mechanic ).
Is asking them to revert ritualist to what they were in 2006 too much? There is a PVE/PVP separation for a reason, without mentioning how rare ritualist are even in pvp.

Again this is if the update is true.

Karate Jesus · Jun 18, 2009, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

About spirits, IMHO Anet thinks this is a good way to fix them, shame they totally forgot why spirits are useless. The main problem is not with casting time but with their AI, lack of utility, immobility, low level/armor/hp/energy cost and are generally not worth the effort, without mentioning how utterly idiotic 3/4 ritualist skills are (LOL spiritleech aura, and 4, WTF FOUR resurrection skills for a non core class all having the same exact mechanic ).
Is asking them to revert ritualist to what they were in 2006 too much? There is a PVE/PVP separation for a reason, without mentioning how rare ritualist are even in pvp.

Again this is if the update is true.

Tbh, the spirit buffs will make people run Spirit Spammers again. Oh, and in PvE spirits aren't immobile (Summon Spirits), their low level/armor/hp don't matter because you can recharge them with Assassin's Promise, and the cost of spirits can be handled with decent e-management.

It will be interesting to see AP Spirit Spammers again.

TheDarkshineKnight · Jun 18, 2009, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

If the leaked infos are true this is going to be the worst nerf ritualists ever received, might as well remove them from the game.

Are you kidding? If that info is true, then this is going to be the biggest buff Ritualists have ever received. Notice that while all of the spell durations were nerfed, Spawning Power was buffed. So, if you want bring along Rit weapon skills in a build, you'll have to bring a Rit along. Otherwise, you'll be stuck with buffs that last for a very short time. This essentially forces builds to bring along a Ritualist in PvP, which pleases me greatly.

Keira Nightgale · Jun 18, 2009, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Tbh, the spirit buffs will make people run Spirit Spammers again. Oh, and in PvE spirits aren't immobile (Summon Spirits), their low level/armor/hp don't matter because you can recharge them with Assassin's Promise, and the cost of spirits can be handled with decent e-management.

It will be interesting to see AP Spirit Spammers again.

No, the few minority of us who still plays ritualist rarely uses spirits for the aforementioned matter, not because of their casting time (wich is one of the issues but not the main one). Spirit spamming died because it's not viable, spirits die before they even appear on screen, they cost too much. Even more evident in HM where mob actually hit faster therefore triggering union about 10 times in 2 seconds.
Summon spirits is not a solution. The heal is minimal (r12 kurz here), second it puts spirits all in the same place so that they can be easily taken out, third because mobs AI prioritizes lower level targets spirits are always going to be the bull's eye.
In the last case, if the spirits are defensive (they should be already dead considering that at 16 spawning they only last 5-6 seconds) you could safely put them out of the aggro bubble, problem resolved, but if they are attacking spirits they must be placed on the midline, ergo they are going to be targeted. Pair this up with a horrible AI unable to tell the difference between a melee or a caster (great shadowsong blinded an ele).
And again, you do realize that AP is a sin skill, spirits should be viable without having to resort to your secondary and waste your elite slot (even if AP is better than 99% of the other ritualists elites).

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight

Are you kidding? If that info is true, then this is going to be the biggest buff Ritualists have ever received. Notice that while all of the spell durations were nerfed, Spawning Power was buffed. So, if you want bring along Rit weapon skills in a build, you'll have to bring a Rit along. Otherwise, you'll be stuck with buffs that last for a very short time. This essentially forces builds to bring along a Ritualist in PvP, which pleases me greatly.

Can you read? Given the infos are true they are not a buff. They are forcing you to put points in spawning power to achieve the same duration we already have.
The impact is minimal on Eles and Necros. An ele will cast WoW more often, ritualists instead cannot afford to waste energy and therefore must raise spawning from 3 to 9 in order to achieve the same results they could get before.

mazza558 · Jun 18, 2009, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Tbh, the spirit buffs will make people run Spirit Spammers again. Oh, and in PvE spirits aren't immobile (Summon Spirits), their low level/armor/hp don't matter because you can recharge them with Assassin's Promise, and the cost of spirits can be handled with decent e-management.

It will be interesting to see AP Spirit Spammers again.

And it's not just that, but we'll probably see builds which exploit Assassin's Promise and Union to give permanent protection for the party during fights in PvE, whilst at the same time spamming spirits and Painful Bond all over the place.

It'll be great times for the PvE Ritualist if the leaks are true.

But then I can see such builds getting nerfed for being too powerful, but we'll have to wait and see.

Karate Jesus · Jun 18, 2009, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

Can you read? Given the infos are true they are not a buff. They are forcing you to put points in spawning power to achieve the same duration we already have.

Forcing you to put points in Spawning is a ritualist buff simply because it nerfs other professions abilities to use weapon spells.

Now, in PvE this....sucks, because now your N/Rt's weapon spells will suck and Rt heroes/Rt players will have to spread their atts pretty heavily just to use their own skills....which as I've already said "sucks".

However, in PvP this forces Rits into use (that is, if you want to use Weapon Spells). Primary Eles, Necros, and Mesmers wont be able to use weapon spells as easily any more....so ritualists will either be used in PvP or.....well, or people will just stop using weapon spells (which is possible).

Coast · Jun 18, 2009, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

No, the few minority of us who still plays ritualist rarely uses spirits for the aforementioned matter, not because of their casting time (wich is one of the issues but not the main one). Spirit spamming died because it's not viable, spirits die before they even appear on screen, they cost too much. Even more evident in HM where mob actually hit faster therefore triggering union about 10 times in 2 seconds.
Summon spirits is not a solution. The heal is minimal (r12 kurz here), second it puts spirits all in the same place so that they can be easily taken out, third because mobs AI prioritizes lower level targets spirits are always going to be the bull's eye.
In the last case, if the spirits are defensive (they should be already dead considering that at 16 spawning they only last 5-6 seconds) you could safely put them out of the aggro bubble, problem resolved, but if they are attacking spirits they must be placed on the midline, ergo they are going to be targeted. Pair this up with a horrible AI unable to tell the difference between a melee or a caster (great shadowsong blinded an ele).
And again, you do realize that AP is a sin skill, spirits should be viable without having to resort to your secondary and waste your elite slot (even if AP is better than 99% of the other ritualists elites).

Can you read? Given the infos are true they are not a buff. They are forcing you to put points in spawning power to achieve the same duration we already have.
The impact is minimal on Eles and Necros. An ele will cast WoW more often, ritualists instead cannot afford to waste energy and therefore must raise spawning from 3 to 9 in order to achieve the same results they could get before.

It is a buff tho dude, believe it or not(indirect buff). wow is basically an unremovable big guardian (unless u attack in pvp or are so smart to overlpa it with another weaponspell) therefor it will still be used what means people will use rit flagger

Keira Nightgale · Jun 18, 2009, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Forcing you to put points in Spawning is a ritualist buff simply because it nerfs other professions abilities to use weapon spells.

Now, in PvE this....sucks, because now your N/Rt's weapon spells will suck and Rt heroes/Rt players will have to spread their atts pretty heavily just to use their own skills....which as I've already said "sucks".

However, in PvP this forces Rits into use (that is, if you want to use Weapon Spells). Primary Eles, Necros, and Mesmers wont be able to use weapon spells as easily any more....so ritualists will either be used in PvP or.....well, or people will just stop using weapon spells (which is possible).

Are you serious?
A buff is when they increase a skill/attribute line viability by making it better.
Forcing you to put points in spawning does the opposite:

It hinders your flexibility, these extra points could have been useful for another attribute (12-12-3 spread)
If you don't put points in spawning your weapon spells will have a duration shorter than the one they actually have
Even if you put points into spawning you will have to reach 9-10 Attribute level to gain a minimal benefit.
Necro and eles are not hit, at least not in pve. A necro can afford to spam a weapon spell since they got infinite energy, ritualists cannot.
This is a nerf.

reaper with no name · Jun 18, 2009, 09:24 PM // 21:24

If the duration of weapon spells are indeed recieving a nerf (with SP bringing those durations back to normal), then that is indeed a buff to rits. Well, primary rits at least.

Remember, the reason rits suck is not primarily due to their skills; it's due to the fact that other professions (coughnecrocough) can use them better than the rit can. Anything that makes the rit better at using their own skills relative to other professions is exactly what's needed most. We can worry about buffing skills later. What's needed first and foremost is for there to be a reason to be a rit.

Karate Jesus · Jun 18, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

Are you serious?
A buff is when they increase a skill/attribute line viability by making it better.
Forcing you to put points in spawning does the opposite:

It hinders your flexibility, these extra points could have been useful for another attribute (12-12-3 spread)
If you don't put points in spawning your weapon spells will have a duration shorter than the one they actually have
Even if you put points into spawning you will have to reach 9-10 Attribute level to gain a minimal benefit.
Necro and eles are not hit, at least not in pve. A necro can afford to spam a weapon spell since they got infinite energy, ritualists cannot.
This is a nerf.

Buff. Technically, you're correct that this isn't a buff (if the definition of buff is something that is "wanted"). But, it's obvious that it was intended to be a buff.

Look, I don't like the change either. I think it's a foolish and lackluster way to buff a primary attribute that has struggled for a while. But, what did you expect from Anet? This is just what I've come to expect...

Keira Nightgale · Jun 18, 2009, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

It is a buff tho dude, believe it or not(indirect buff). wow is basically an unremovable big guardian (unless u attack in pvp or are so smart to overlpa it with another weaponspell) therefor it will still be used what means people will use rit flagger

Are you familiar with the current ether prism template?
I'll refresh your memory:

it's a template that allows you a 3 seconds every 15 antispike with a 14 net energy gain
If you lower WoW (or any other weapon spell) duration by two seconds the ele will laugh hard, with his build it's really hard to fall short on energy therefore he can solve the duration problem by casting WoW again. This goes in pve as well, with necros SR or elementalists using Ether Renewal.

Ritualist on the other hand cannot afford this, they will either stop using weapon spells or increase spawning power in order to attain the previous effects therefore lowering their flexibility.

We are going offtopic btw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Buff. Technically, you're correct that this isn't a buff (if the definition of buff is something that is "wanted"). But, it's obvious that it was intended to be a buff.

Look, I don't like the change either. I think it's a foolish and lackluster way to buff a primary attribute that has struggled for a while. But, what did you expect from Anet? This is just what I've come to expect...

No, it's not. It would be a buff if it produced better effects, it's a primary attribute buff, I'll give you that, but Ritualists (as a class) are nerfed.
Same with the spirits modification, they are buffed but it's just a way for Anet to be lazy and not fix the real issues. Still in terms of fictional update.

Karate Jesus · Jun 18, 2009, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

Are you familiar with the current ether prism template?
I'll refresh your memory:

it's a template that allows you a 3 seconds every 15 antispike with a 14 net energy gain
If you lower WoW (or any other weapon spell) duration by two seconds the ele will laugh hard, with his build it's really hard to fall short on energy therefore he can solve the duration problem by casting WoW again. This goes in pve as well, with necros SR or elementalists using Ether Renewal.

Ritualist on the other hand cannot afford this, they will either stop using weapon spells or increase spawning power in order to attain the previous effects therefore lowering their flexibility.

We are going offtopic btw.

They're actually nerfing Ether Prism too, btw.

And we are off-topic. Back on topic, gogo

Short · Jun 18, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

I agree with what someone said earlier on, they do a big buff every 6 months and then fix it for the next few. I'm expecting more buffs than what was leaked, if not it'll be slightly

Ghost Omel · Jun 18, 2009, 09:45 PM // 21:45

i hope that leaked new are either fake or just a small portion of the netire skill update.....Regardless i alwasy adapt to any skill change =) they dont affect me much anyway.. just find a different skill But thjats not the topic.. so yeah changes are just that changes good or bad is a metter of perception.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jun 18, 2009, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Short

I agree with what someone said earlier on, they do a big buff every 6 months and then fix it for the next few. I'm expecting more buffs than what was leaked, if not it'll be slightly

Don't worry given the track record expect 20+ elites to get pushed into lame meta come July/August.

Short · Jun 18, 2009, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

Don't worry given the track record expect 20+ elites to get pushed into lame meta come July/August.

I'm just saving my balth to buy the skills for next OP build to come along.

Keira Nightgale · Jun 18, 2009, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

Don't worry given the track record expect 20+ elites to get pushed into lame meta come July/August.

Updates are going to be along these lines

Hex Eater Vortex Elite Spell. Remove a hex from target ally. If a hex is removed in this way, any foes in the area die.

Power Flux Elite Hex Spell. If target foe is casting a spell or chant he dies, if not he takes over 9000 damage and is dazed.

Mind Blast Elite Spell. Foes in the area are struck for 15...51 fire damage. If you have more Energy than target foe, you gain 1...7 Energy + 5 energy for each foe you hit.

Ether Prism Skill. For 10 seconds, all damage you take is reduced to 0. When Ether Prism ends, you gain 5...17 Energy. Made non elite so that it can be used with Mind Blast

Lingering Curse Elite Hex Spell. For 6...25 seconds, target foe and all nearby foes suffer -0...2 Health degeneration, and receive 20% less benefit from healing. Any attempt to get rid of this hex automatically fails, hex is renewed if is not removed before its duration expires

Palm Strike Elite Skill. Target touched foe takes 10...540 damage and is Crippled for 1...400 seconds. This skill counts as an off-hand attack.

Second Wind Elite Spell. You gain 100 energy. This spell causes Exhaustion on target foe and 1 nearby foe for each rank of Illusion magic (you're going to use distortion anyway) if target foe is a warrior he's blinded, weakened, suffers from deep wound and a monk in the area is knocked down for 3 seconds.

An error during character creation has been fixed, such bug allowed you to create classes such Paragons and Ritualists wich were never meant to be.

Coast · Jun 19, 2009, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

Are you familiar with the current ether prism template?
I'll refresh your memory:

it's a template that allows you a 3 seconds every 15 antispike with a 14 net energy gain
If you lower WoW (or any other weapon spell) duration by two seconds the ele will laugh hard, with his build it's really hard to fall short on energy therefore he can solve the duration problem by casting WoW again. This goes in pve as well, with necros SR or elementalists using Ether Renewal.

Ritualist on the other hand cannot afford this, they will either stop using weapon spells or increase spawning power in order to attain the previous effects therefore lowering their flexibility.

We are going offtopic btw.

No, it's not. It would be a buff if it produced better effects, it's a primary attribute buff, I'll give you that, but Ritualists (as a class) are nerfed.
Same with the spirits modification, they are buffed but it's just a way for Anet to be lazy and not fix the real issues. Still in terms of fictional update.

Yes i'm familiar with e prism runner +last time I checked e prism got 20sec recharge+ u shouldn't be spamming ur weapon spells anyway